Is Your Child Worried About Death?

Posted on the TCS List on Mon, 12 Jun, 2000, at 11:52:23 -0400

by Sarah Fitz-Claridge

I had quoted the following Extropian principle:

1. Perpetual Progress - Seeking more intelligence, wisdom, and effectiveness, an indefinite lifespan, and the removal of political, cultural, biological, and psychological limits to self-actualization and self-realization. Perpetually overcoming constraints on our progress and possibilities. Expanding into the universe and advancing without end.

A poster replied:

Why would anyone want an infinite lifespan? I hope to go with dignity when my time's up.

I hope not to “go” at all. Or if we have not solved the death problem by that time, to be cryopreserved with or without dignity. 8-) Death has got to go.

Another poster had replied to the first:

Why would anyone not [want an infinite lifespan]? When is your “time up”? Do you believe that some external entity owns you and has the right to decide this, or are you content to be (essentially) at the mercy of a lethal bomb hooked up to a random-number generator? An enhanced lifespan can be used for creating knowledge, developing oneself(with an ever-growing knowledge base & tool set), exploring(definitely including but not limited to, exploration of space, etc. This naturally leads to “perpetually overcoming constraints on our progress and possibilities” and “advancing (toward whatever goals one chooses, consistent with the structure of the multiverse) without end”. As for “grandiose” or “taking over the universe”, no one is suggesting that we will accomplish everything in one massive swoop(although some do expect tremendously accelerated progress) or an imperialist crusade(if there is anyone “out there” to colonialize). We can take it one day at a time, at least until the Earth stops rotating, at which point we'll have to figure something else out:-) Perhaps more to the point as far as TCS goes – are you willing to use your best efforts help children achieve any degree of advancement, progress, health, longevity,etc. that they desire, either by helping yourself or finding others? If a child learns of death and says/communicates clearly “I don't want to die”, are you prepared to help em explore the available/forseeable options for postponing or avoiding death?

Yes, while it seems unlikely that most children would think much about death, in some families, where there has been a death, say, a child might well be concerned about death. In that case, Karen's approach would, it seems prima facie, be very unhelpful. The most important thing to do would be to find out why the child (let's call her Little Tia) is worrying about it and try to solve that problem. Is it that she fears that she might drop dead at any moment just like her Aunty Jane did? Then it would be a good idea to explain that Aunty Jane had died from such-and-such a disease, which old people sometimes (but by no means always – tell her the statistics) get but which Little Tia has not got, and is most unlikely to get until she too is old, and perhaps not even then. It would be wise to mention that by the time Little Tia is old, they may have found a cure for that disease anyway!

In general, if a child is worried, try to find out what the worry is, so that you can address it as directly as possible.

Tia might be interested to learn about the ways scientists are trying to solve the death problem, and it might make sense to point out to her that it seems likely that by the time she is an old person, our lifespan will have been extended considerably by all the advancements in medicine, etc. Another thing you might want to do, if your child is thinking about death, might be to read her a book such as The First Immortal, by James Halperin, or if she is a bit young to enjoy that, you could tell her about it, or retell the pertinent parts of the story, or tell her about cryonic biostasis.

OTOH, her interest in death might be nothing to do with fear of death. It might be that she is upset about no longer having the nice chats she had about Pokemon with her Aunty Jane. Or the trips to the zoo Aunty Jane used to take her on. So before you launch into a discussion of the ins and outs of cryonic suspension, life extension and the like, check that you have correctly identified the problem. ;-)

Immortality is horrifying.

Immortality is horrifying. I'll take my death, please.

Death

"You won't catch me goin' 'round dyin' all over the place. They'll have to kill me before I die."

Technically you never die if

Technically you never die if you believe in god... you move on... no body should fear death it is part of life

I was very aware of my own mortality as a child

It is uterly beyond me why anyone would opose the idea of an indefinate lifespan. Those of you who want to die don't have to keep on living unitl the clock runs out. Indefinate lifespan doesn't mean nothing can kill you. It isn't as though we've got some evil genie who's going to force immortality on you long after you've changed your mind about the whole idea. Suacide is a perfectly acceptble option for you if you aren't interested in continuing to live. Forcing a slow death by aging on the rest of us, however, is not acceptable, and equivalent to mass murder.

As a child, I was aware of death, and spent a lot of time struggling with the existential questions that came with the possibility that, one day, I might (in fact almost certainly would) cease to exist. It occupied a central place in my mind for quite some time. What was the meaning of it all if I didn't exist anymore? Did it matter how long I lived if it was certain to end eventually? Why not just end it now?

I'm not sure how used any of you are to hearing suacidal thoughts from a (then) elementary aged child, but it was certainly the case.

To this day, I find it impossible to continue living without some belief that I won't simply cease to exist. Some people find that belief through religeon, but I could never accept (even back then) something that was, by definition, unprovable. As such, I keep looking up research on the aging process, that ticking clock that serves as the final limit on our lives. As much as we've proven our ability to overcome injury and disease, aging is still with us, and until that ultimate time limit no longer plagues us, we'll never be free to live until we tire of living, which is, ultimately, what indefinate lifespan is all about.

Your child might be thinking about death, and might well be aware of his or her own mortality. It's a lie when they tell you that kids all think they're immortal. I didn't, and it scarred the hell out of me for a very long time.

I think I could be as unbiased as ...

Okay, I think I could tell my child about cryonic suspension, and I think I could be as unbiased in the telling as an atheist could be in telling hir child about the belief some people have in God and an afterlife.

I think your children will probably pick up on the fact that you prefer cryonic suspension over religious faith, just as my children will undoubtedly pick up on the fact that I prefer faith in God over cryonic suspension.

Is a belief in Taking Children Seriously incompatible with faith in God? I hadn't seen it that way, though I realize some Christians might. I realize many who embrace TCS are atheists -- but so are many moms who embrace their children through attachment parenting.

So I just saw it as a situation where both religious and non-religious could have good sense about how to treat their children. I'm greatly enjoying your writings -- as well as the writings of Karl Popper. I definitely don't believe I (or any other person) has learned all there is to know about God and the multiverse.

I want to communicate this sense of adventure to my children -- this sense that there's so much out there to learn and do. But I feel it would be wrong not to share my own beliefs and values in the process -- wrong, and also incompatible with TCS theory, which says we SHOULD share our theories and experience with our children in response to their interest.

Susan

Worried about death

hi there, i am in my middle teens and all through my life i have been worried about diing in my sleep. i love life 100% and i cannot really accept death, it frightens my completely. so if i am ill and i go off to bed it takes me hours to get to sleep beacuse of this worry. is there anything i can do?

thank you

Response to Reader Worried About Death

Hi, I'm so happy you love your life 100%. I was actually quite unhappy as a teen -- so it's good to hear about teens who are happy and rejoicing to be alive.

You have so much to look forward to. Since you're happy now, I think you'll be really super happy as an adult: I'm glad I didn't kill myself when I was a depressed teenager, because I've found adult life to be tremendously better.

When you ask, "is there anything I can do"(about the fear of death), I don't want to ignore this question.

We can't do religious proselytizing here -- but maybe it's okay for me to simply share that my faith, prayer, and reading my Bible help me to have peace and conquer this fear as well as any other fear.

Best wishes to you in your journey!
Susan

Re: worried about death

I'm not sure it matters whether or not we can accept death. There just isn't much we can do about it once it happens. We can do what we can to keep ourselves in good shape and health, and being as safe as possible when living our lives.

Being ill is certainly no fun. Lying in bed awake for hours worried one might die in their sleep is not at all likely to keep this from happening yet it is very likely to keep one from enjoying life fully.

What is at the root of the fear? Fear that death is painful and awful? Fear that life would be over and one would miss out on so many things? When we shelter ourselves out of an irrational fear of missing something, we tend to miss out on a lot, if not experiences, the full enjoyment of those experiences.

death

I have just now begun my teenage years and lately all i can think about is death!! Every night i fall asleep thinking about it and it scares the heck out of me. To think of being gone out of the world and not seeing my mom again or friends its just a very crazy feeling.I pray to god everynight to make these thoughts go away but they dont. I dont know quite why im thinkin these thing but its something i can get out of my head!! help me please!

thinking habits

grappling with the concept of death is something that we all do unless such ideas are totally repressed (and don't repressed concerns come back to bite you in the butt in some odd form sooner or later? so no point in doing that).

the article and comments above contain some good ideas about ways to think about death. maybe you, above reader, would enjoy reading the book the first immortal along with other books, articles, discussions about death, and about fear, and about the emotions that come up around the idea of leaving loved ones and/or loved ones leaving you. Maybe this is a good time to explore existentialism.

also, there are thinking habits that a person can develop to distract one's self from thinking thoughts that they know they don't want to be thinking, when undesirable thoughts keep looping around and around. these can vary from person to person, but finding things of more interest to think about, something gripping to read or do when you find yourself looping, could help to break that repetition.

in general, more research, talking to trusted advisors, finding out what other people think, how they have coped, trying something different- like maybe doing an enjoyable workout several hours before going to sleep to help to tire yourself out, or meditating/doing segmental relaxation when wanting to go to sleep- can help to unravel big things that are bothering a person, bit by bit. It is a learning process, not to be feared, but to welcome. I hope you have good trusted help nearby to turn to with this.

very best wishes

thanks

ime in my teens and i can not stop thinking abought death it scars me so much and whats after it but this site has helped me a lot and its comferting to know there people like me THANK YOU TO EVERRYBODY ON THIS SITE

P.S SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING

Re: Worried about death

If the reason you fear dying is because there's still so much you want to do/get, then follow the old cliche saying 'seize the day'. The best way to get started, in my opinion, is every day, or when you see a window of opportunity closing, is think of something you'd really kick yourself over if that window closed and you didn't do it. Then work up the courage to do it; maybe add that you'll kick yourself or give a group of friends permission to kick you if you don't. That's gotten me to do a few things I wanted to do but wouldn't have otherwise.

...I still need to follow that advice more...>.> .>

childs fear of dying

My daughter has recently started worring about what is going to happen to her things when she dies. She hasn't directly mentioned being afraid of death, she is just worried about her drawings and things she has made. She is eight years old. I have tried talking to her to try to find out what has trigered this but she says these thoughts just pop into her head. Is this 'normal' for a child her age?

sounds normal to me

... whatever 'normal' is. it is happening, so what to do?

while it might seem to be reassuring to a parent, to figure out 'what has triggered' thoughts that the parent does not understand, it is likely to be intrusive to try to get into a kid's mind and try to figure such a thing out. such a detour does not address the problem being expressed by the child. parent might get an inkling of the origin of the child's concern, in the process of pursuing a solution to the actual problem that the child has identified, but to divert there immediately might be a mistake and actually end up with parent dismissing the child's concerns if parent does not take the 'trigger' seriously. (oh, it was just the dead crow in the road, such things happen; oh, it was just a joke that someone told that you misunderstood; oh, it was just a cartoon show on tv, that's not even real)

so a person's best explanation is that thoughts just pop into hir head. if the thoughts are disturbing, together can you pick it apart to identify what exactly is the concern? what happens to possessions is expressed as the concern: work with that and don't assume further. do we know any children who have died? what happened to their things? what would this owner of things like to have happen to hir things if she was not there to use them any more? people make out wills, to say what happens to their things after they die. would you like to make out a will?

i suspect that we adults have lots of unresolved fears and feelings and beliefs about death, maybe especially when the questioning comes from the mouths of innocent babes and young people with their whole lives ahead of them. none of us wants to dwell on the possiblity of losing a child. but we all have to face these possibilities; some of us have to live through such an experience. facing one's own questions and fears about death, as a parent, and sorting it out rationally can help us to really hear and help our children in their own exploration and knowledge creation about death. it's another example of learning that never ends (until we turn our toes up, or go the cryonic route until something better turns up)

Worried about Death

I was very worried about death for a while especially just before going to sleep. Im not religious so i have no idea what to believe in. I read some of the stories on this site and they are very comforting and have given me so much to believe in after i die. To me now, death is a human created idea. Death itself does not exist. There are two worlds to explore. Your physical body is allowed to explore this galaxy, but for most of us, just planet earth. When you make the change from your physical body into your spiritual body a whole new universe is waiting for you. I would really reccomend anyone who is worried checking out this site: www.near-death.com

Post new comment



The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.




  • Allowed HTML tags: <p> <blockquote> <a> <b> <strong> <i> <em> <u> <ol> <ul> <li> <img> <strike> <cite> <sub> <sup> <n> <c> <aa>
  • Leave a blank line between paragraphs.
  • To insert node information:<n node>
  • Email addresses will be encoded to protect them.
  • '@' characters will be replaced with images to impede spammers.
Verify comment authorship

What do you get when you add eight to one?

Please answer the question above. Use digits, not words.